Marco Martin is a German writer and journalist. He works on topics such as freedom and threats to it, dissidence, the legacy of dictatorships, Eastern Europe and Israel. Martin is visiting Bulgaria at the invitation of the “Konrad Adenauer" Foundation.
Mr.Martin,youmetwithstudentsandpupilsinBulgaria. Whatdidyoulearnfromthem?
Marco Martin: I was extremely impressed by the seriousness, by the intellectual curiosity of the students and the questions they asked in relation to my work, on the topic of freedom and the threats to it. There was a sense of awareness that the topic of freedom is not just a topic of history.
Now the key question is about Putin's aggressive war, this is something that poses challenges to all of us - in German society and in Bulgarian society. My impression is that young people in Bulgaria realize this.
The fallacies of German politics
You have been critical of German politics towards Russia for years. Why, in your opinion, did the previous governments in Berlin not realize what this would lead to? Because they arrogantly thought they could prevent it. Because they believed that the Kremlin's way of thinking was the same as theirs and followed the motto: "Both sides make a deal, both benefit, both win".
But an expansionist despot does not think like that. It is not a matter of "we both win", but of "I want to win, and the others must lose". And to this, of course, is added the strong anti-Western attitude formed by his "socialization" in the KGB.
People in the Chancellor's administration, leading German politicians, but also the trade unions, as well as business and a large part of the public, did not want to see it. Although it was obvious, although the human rights activists from "Memorial" and some politicians from the "Greens" have long warned about the contours Russia has been taking since Putin came to power in 1999.
The latest book iscalled “Tasks beforefreedom". Paradoxically it seemsthattoday freedoms in Europe are becoming in the-greatest threat to themselves your -political freedom allow the existence of parties that threaten democracy, economic freedom Green light for trade with dictators who have enriched themselves and concreted in this way freedom of movement and migration Building walls that we supposedly destroyed What is the biggest challenge facing freedom today?
You touch on several topics, each of which is extremely complex. I believe that a balance must always be sought between freedom and security. Because if there is too much security, the question arises of who defines what security is. If this balance is in the hands of an authoritarian ruler or an authoritarian party, then freedom is sacrificed in the name of security.
Strong services that act actively
On the other hand, of course, the right to live without fear is also a human right. And that's why internal security plays a big role - that is, internal security against individuals who pose a threat. We have far-right extremism, we have far-left extremism, and we have Islamism. That's why we need strong security services that can intervene and act proactively to guarantee freedom. That means there will always be a tension between freedom and security.
I also think that civil rights liberals oversimplify things when they see the danger only from the state. But I also believe that the state alone cannot solve these problems if there is no awareness of this ambivalence and this ambiguity among the entire population. We have freedom, we want to preserve it, so we must defend it resolutely - both inside and outside.
You live in Berlin, and the last elections there, and especially the debate that broke out after them, clearly showed how much Society is polarized, especially on issues such as anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. How do you think these wounds can be closed?
I am not a healer, but an observer, so I can only offer ideas. There is a great polarization - on the one hand we have right-wing populism, whose goal is to fragment and destroy the democratic center, as well as the democratic-conservative parties. And on the other hand we have left-wing populism, which is pro-Putin and looks to France, to left-wing authoritarian figures like Jean-Luc Mélenchon, and sees there a model for success. Their model for success is that they go to certain Muslim immigrant circles and score points with criticism of Israel, which also instills anti-Semitic sentiments. And the sad thing is that it works. I believe that just as the democratic right is expected to distance itself clearly from far-right extremism, the democratic left also has a responsibility to make a very clear distinction from the authoritarian left, the far-left and the Islamists.
But“AlternativeforGermany" and“TheLeft" They are becoming increasingly powerful and there is simply no way they can be ignored in the creation of certain majorities.
Politics without moralizing poses
Yes, but a majority cannot be formed with these parties. Whoever tries to form a majority with these parties will be swallowed up. History proves it. It is about a new self-awareness of the center, including in addressing the voters, asking them: “What do you want?” Do you really believe that Mr. Höcke, Mrs. Weidel, Mrs. Reichinek have even the slightest idea about the economy, about security policy, about pension policy? What are the consequences of what you vote for?
I think that the democratic center must become much more self-confident. What we have is moralizing, but it is defensive moralizing, not pride in what we have achieved and an accurate description of the problems we face.
Are you an optimist for Germany?
I have no choice. My old friend Wolf Biermann, now 90, described pessimism as a "great filth" at the Frankfurt Book Fair. He said that too many people have died for a better future. And we, who are not yet in danger of our lives, have no right to give up before the great struggle has really begun.
You write a lot about dissidents in the 20th century. Who are today the bastions of freedom - the places where the dissidents Can they find protection? Is the USA still among them?
Marco Martin during a discussion at the NBU in Sofia Photo: Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung
Not exactly. Gal Beckerman has a book called “How to be a dissident?” And this is really very interesting. He refers precisely to this tradition of Eastern European dissidents. When you refer to the law and the right, when you lead a life without fear and do not tolerate repression.
Such activists are found in Eastern Europe - Vaclav Havel, the people from “Memorial”. I am also thinking now of my colleague and writer, Michal Hvorecký, who lives in Bratislava. He recently published a book called “Dissident” about how to counter the authoritarian governments of Putin and Robert Fico through civil disobedience. In Hong Kong, I met the student activist Joshua Wong, who is still in prison today. He asked me where I was from and when I answered, he said: “Berlin, the city of freedom! Now Hong Kong is a frontline city.”
“War has been declared on our way of life”
War has been declared on us, on our way of life. Whether it's Trump supporters with their lies, Putin supporters with their hybrid and very real wars, or the fifth columns inside. We live in a "front city", and anyone can be on this front against evil. And in the name of a good, which should not teach, which should not constantly repeat that we are better, but should refer to facts, to the successful model of the liberal society, to say: “We have more to offer".
And finally, one more question for Bulgaria: what do you say to all those Bulgarians who Are they sympathetic to Putin or are they against supporting Ukraine?
I want to ask these people specifically if they would like to live under Putin's regime. And if they answer "yes", then I will present them with the facts. And if they say "no", the next question would be: "Okay, but should Ukrainians do it?" How heartless, not to mention how depraved, a person must be to wish on other people something that they themselves want to avoid at all costs.
The voices from Ukraine must be heard. And not necessarily the intellectuals. The eyewitness account of a grandfather in front of his burning house, saying goodbye to his children and grandchildren because they had just died from Putin's drones and missiles, should actually be enough. Each of us can show it. Politely, but also insistently.
Source: www.dw.com