DV: We are witnessing a lengthy process of preparing for a meeting that Trump so much wants to organize and for which he claims that Putin and Zelensky have agreed to participate and talk. But the impression is that things will not work out for Trump, that nothing will happen. How do you assess these efforts of Donald Trump?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: History has long answered this question. Everyone knows very well that appeasing an aggressor never leads to peace. It only leads to new blood, new wars, new suffering, new pain. Because the only language that dictators understand, the only language that aggressors understand, is the language of principle, the language of force.
But unfortunately, we see that when the Alaska summit was being prepared, the current American administration repeated the mistake that the leaders of Britain and France made in the 1930s. I think a lot of people were checking their calendars during the Alaska summit to see if it was 2025 or 1938. Because the parallels with the Munich Agreement, when the leaders of Britain and France simply handed over the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia to Hitler without even asking Czechoslovakia itself, were striking. It is also important to note that the main prize for Vladimir Putin at this meeting in Alaska was the meeting itself - the fact that there was such a meeting.
"Putin is a usurper"
Let's not forget that Vladimir Putin, first of all, is a usurper, he is not the legitimate president of the Russian Federation, he has been in power for 26 years, without even worrying about the possibility of holding free elections. And suddenly this illegitimate usurper receives an invitation from the President of the United States of America to visit American soil. The red carpet is literally rolled out for him, and some orchestra plays something in his honor. This is just shameful, a huge victory and award for Putin - absolutely undeserved.
Let's also not forget that Vladimir Putin is suspected of war crimes. There is an official arrest warrant for him, issued by the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the spring of 2023.
In fact, this is the reason why Putin and Trump met in Alaska, because Putin is very afraid that any state that is a party to the Rome Statute and respects the decision of the International Criminal Court will forcibly land his plane if it flies over this country, take him to The Hague, where he belongs, as they once took Milosevic. And the only way to fly directly from Russian to American territory, without flying over the territory of another country, is to fly to Alaska, where there are about 100 kilometers from the Bering Strait. That is exactly what they did.
DW: What would you advise Trump as a politician, how to behave with Putin?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: There is no need for my advice here. History has spoken long ago. Vasily Klyuchevsky once said that history teaches no one anything, it only punishes for not learning its lessons. We know how this will end, we know where it will lead.
Few things undermine the reputation and trust in a policy as much as double standards. Unfortunately, as far as the current US administration is concerned, it is quite clear that it demonstrates double standards in relation to dictators in various countries. There are one standard for the dictators in Venezuela, and a completely different one for the dictator in Moscow, who is an illegitimate usurper, a dictator, and also an aggressor who unleashed the largest, bloodiest war on the European continent since World War II.
DV: Why does Putin continue to persist? Why doesn't he agree with Trump, who offers him deals and joint projects?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: The attempts of some leaders of Western countries to appease Putin, to agree on something with him, to calm him down, look not only naive, but also very stupid. While the regime in the Kremlin tramples on the rights and freedoms of its own citizens, it will never comply with civilized norms of international behavior. These two things - internal repression and external aggression - are always closely linked in Russia. That is why only when a normal, free, legitimate, democratically elected government appears in Russia, only then will the Russian state cease to pose a threat to both its own citizens and surrounding countries.
"Trump and Putin are very similar"
DW: The current US administration is paying less attention to issues related to human rights, including in Russia. As if the Russian and American authorities have reached an understanding on this issue?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: I think that Donald Trump is generally very similar to Vladimir Putin in terms of psychotype, in terms of mentality. It's just that in America there is such a system, such a state structure that does not allow you to go wild, although Trump is trying. It's not my job to comment on American domestic politics, they will deal with their own problems, Russia is enough for me. Just one look at what is happening in America is enough to understand that Donald Trump is testing the limits of the democratic state system of the United States.
It's just that in Russia, when Putin came to power more than 25 years ago, democracy and democratic institutions were still in their infancy, and he managed to quickly destroy them. In America, there is two and a half centuries of democratic tradition. Therefore, it is a little more difficult to destroy this here. But it seems to me that Trump simply sincerely sympathizes with Putin as a person. He wants to be like him, he likes to talk to him, to meet with him. They are very similar. Both want sole power, they want to dispose of other people's destinies, they don't care about all these restrictions, elections, free press, parliaments, justice and so on.
"Trump is causing harm by legitimizing Putin's regime"
DV: Does this mean that the US administration has actually closed itself off from these issues, closed itself off from representatives of democratic forces in Russia and wants to communicate only with Putin?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: In my opinion, it is absolutely obvious that the current US administration is doing everything possible to legitimize Vladimir Putin's regime on the international stage. And everything they are doing is causing terrible harm - not only to democracy in Russia, but also to the principles and values of international politics in general. They are very clearly showing that they simply don't care about any principles and values.
Author: Olga Tikhomirova